Athiest: My thoughts, based not only on a lifetime of experience and study, but on the application of logic, is that the only tenable option is number 1.
Having said that, I’d dispute the phrase “Existence is meaningless”, because existence has both a meaning in itself, and from the perspective of life, especially sentient life, is as good or bad as the individual concerned, makes it. Yes, in the widest possible sense my existence is nothing more than the briefest of insignificant and meaningless flashes in a universe of (as far as we know) infinite space and time, however to me and to others I’m connected to, it’s far from meaningless. But my life – or anyone’s – only exists as long as I exist. After I die I no more exist than it did before I was conceived. There’s absolutely zero evidence to say otherwise, just conjecture based on religious memes.
The concept of a creator is of human origins, lying in the minds of our ancient ancestors who had no other way of understanding the plethora of natural events which went on all around them but to imagine invisible spirit beings who caused the events to happen ( broken, which is what the existence of a creator would necessitate.). The concept of a creator is also impossible under the laws of science which govern energy, matter, and time. Yes, I know science advances, and we’re making more and more discoveries, and some of the previous laws have been tweaked around the edges (such as those which govern the behaviour of matter at the quantum level), however none of those laws have ever been shown to have been
Religion is based almost exclusively on the twin concepts of promises and threats. These probably originated at the time of the agricultural revolution some 12,000 years ago when humans first started to live in close proximity in the first permanent settlements, and a means of keeping order and control arose. The already ancient belief in, and fear of, animistic spirits was almost certainly used to do this, along the lines of – “behave in this community and the spirits will be pleased, but misbehave and the spirits will seek retribution”.
- Promises that the god or gods of the religion concerned will guide and look after followers during their lifetime, and will ensure a continuation of their existence after their bodily death, usually in an idealised place called a heaven, where they can live in peace and harmony for eternity, and be reunited with their already dead loved ones. These are very powerful concepts in psychological terms, and hold huge appeal to vast numbers of people who choose not to think too deeply about their reality.
- Threats that the god or gods of the religion concerned will condemn those people who fail to follow the dogma and requirements of the religion concerned, to an eternity of fire, pain, and turmoil after their bodily death, in a place called a hell. Another psychologically powerful concept in the minds of many.
Both of these concepts are of demonstrable man-made origins and are used as a means of gathering in, and retaining, followers to the religion concerned. Why? Because more followers means not only a continuation of the existence of the religion itself, but more power and influence in wider society, not to mention more wealth.
Does that answer the question?
My Reply: I had to respond because you went ahead to explain why you would choose option one. First, just so you know, your knowledge and studies is what made you choose your option and not because you were been logical. I hope you know these. If this is true, it means you must have those sets of knowledge, you must be given those sets of knowledge, those set of knowledge must be gotten from somewhere. So next time you are talking of control, remember I got my knowledge from a place and you got yours from a place too. We are been controlled and limited. I know this for myself. Do you? Or do you think your knowledge has somehow freed you?
Your second paragraph: I don’t understand. All I see is sugar coating an obvious fact about evolution. What do you mean “…to me and to others I’m connected to, it’s far from meaningless”. What’s this? Does this make sense to you? Yes life is meaningless, BUT TO ME and to others life is not meaningless. Is it meaningless or not? If evolution is meaningless, then all products remains meaningless including you and others you are connected to! You cannot have one and the other. If your life has meaning which is does have, then it cannot be from something that lacks purpose or meaning. The way you guys think, i honestly don’t understand.
Let me tackle your fourth paragraph. You are arguing from a standpoint that man evolved from monkeys. You also began your counterargument with a summary of your years of study. I guess your study did not delve into archeological discoveries that proves otherwise, how these discoveries show that they were more advanced civilization than ours in the past. Archeological technologies that even surpasses what we are able to do now. Let me guess, aliens!
You actually believe 12,000 years old humans were capable of having these sinister thoughts? You must think these guys are control freaks. If we are going to go based on your point, then we can say that 12,000 years old humans would not think that way simple because it doesn’t make sense. Look at you, you are not controlled by religion, but you are controlled by your time, job, media and most of your knowledge. The point is because you don’t believe in God doesn’t exempt you from been controlled (if you would like to know who is controlling you, find out who created the things that are indirectly controlling you – but if you love your illusion of freedom, you can keep at it. I will just like you to know that a person who openly comes out to control you out of love just like a parent-child relationship is far better than the person who secretly controls you – that’s simply diabolical. Nothing good comes out of that). If they talked about spirits and gods, it is because they exist. If one of the human could communicate with these spirits and decides to use his knowledge for deceptive purposes, now that would make more sense.
You are describing exactly what the powers that be are doing to the world right now and what they have been trying to do since the Tower of babel, which is discredit God, make Him non-existent or both. Today religion is been used to control people because, “…If one of the human could communicate with these spirits and decides to use his knowledge for deceptive purposes, now that would make more sense”. This simply proves in the ezistence of God, gods, spirits and satan.
You need not reply me. I am sure you will just keep giving me more exoteric knowledge and we will not get anywhere. Instead i simply pray that God will reveal himself to you in Jesus name. Amen.